Don’t Read This If You’re Easily Offended …
Posted by Bill | Filed under Musings
In my perusing of other “recovering pharisees” I came across this joke. It includes a portion that some may find offensive.
If I had thought about it long enough I probably could have come up with different language, but this is a lighthearted way of stepping outside my box.
You’re welcome to not read if you don’t want to …
I encourage your comments.
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Many years ago the Pope decreed that all the Jews had to leave Italy. There was, of course, a huge outcry from the Jewish community, so the Pope offered a deal. He would have a religious debate with a leader of the Jewish community. If the Jew won the debate, the Jews would be permitted to stay in Italy. If the Pope won, the Jews would have to leave.
The Jewish community met and picked an aged Rabbi, Moishe, to represent them in the debate. Rabbi Moishe, however, could not speak Latin, and the Pope could not speak Yiddish. So it was decided that theirs would be a “silent” debate. A debate with just gestures full of emotions.
On the day of the great debate, the Pope and Rabbi Moishe sat opposite each other for a full minute before the Pope raised his hand and showed three fingers. Rabbi Moishe looked back and demonstrably raised his middle finger.
Next, the Pope waved his finger around his head. Rabbi Moishe pointed to the ground where he sat.
The Pope then brought out a communion wafer and chalice of wine. Rabbi Moishe pulled out an apple.
With that the Pope stood up and said, “I concede the debate. This man has bested me. The Jews can stay.”
Later, the Cardinals gathered around the Pope, asking him what had happened. The Pope said, “First I held up three fingers to represent the Trinity. He responded by holding up his middle finger to remind me that there was still one God common to both our religions. Then I waved my finger around me to show him that God was all around us. He responded by pointing to the ground to show that God was also right here with us. I pulled out the wine and the wafer to show that God absolves us of our sins. He pulled out an apple to remind me of original sin. He had an answer for everything. What could I do?”
Meanwhile, the Jewish community crowded around Rabbi Moishe.
“What happened?” they asked.
“Well,” said Moishe, “First he said to me, ‘You Jews have three days to get out of here.’ So I said to him, ‘Up yours’.
Then he tells me the whole city would be cleared of Jews. So I said to him, ‘Listen here Mr. Pope, the Jews… we stay right here!”
“And then?” asked a woman.
“Who knows?” said Rabbi Moishe. “He took out his lunch, so I took out mine.”
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Certainly both men saw the same emotion and gestures. Both men interpreted them differently.
Having been in church for many years I have misinterpreted the actions of others.
I’ve condemned those whom I considered sinners as well as those that professed to be Christ-like.
I was admittedly cynical and second-guessed as to whether their actions were genuine or contrived.
I prided myself on determining intent from simply seeing a picture.
I forgot to get the beam out of my eye while striving to extract the splinters from others.
This week the Apostle Paul’s words were made real to me when he stated, “I am less than the least of sinners …”
No matter how much grace I have received from God, I can never get beyond the place where I am still reckoned a sinner. If Paul himself considered the “chief of sinners” then how dare I lay claim to anything higher?
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July 25, 2010 at 5:57 pm
Perhaps I should be disqualified in giving an answer as I’ve heard the joke before. OTOH there are at least two reasons one might find offense in the joke as presented.
For one, the Pope was, IMO. very courteous and thinking the Rabbi would respond with a measure of graciousness he failed utterly to display.
Secondly, the Pope spoke (communicated) in his mind by conveying his truth as derived from the Scriptures, as He understood it, whereas the rabbi was seemingly only interested in humiliating the Pope, thereby winning the contest of reasonable dialogue.
And, to mention an obvious, to me, reason for being offended, why weren’t the roles in behavior reversed in the presentation?
July 27, 2010 at 1:26 am
Would it have made a difference in the joke if the roles HAD been reversed? I would’ve laughed the same. It could have easily been a Baptist and Lutheran, or a Pentecostal and an atheist. For that matter it could have been a nameless man and woman, or two people named Bill and Lee, and I would’ve still found humor.
The point wasn’t in the roles. The point is in the communication. Yes, the Rabbi was completely rude – but the Pope didn’t perceive it so. There are many times in the church world we think we communicate the gospel but fail miserably to take into consideration the individual – or culture – to whom we are delivering the good news. We equally fail to understand how our message has been received – essentially believing as the Pope did, that our message was received exactly as intended. Which is why the world laughs so many times at Christians.
In the end we as Christians are called to go and make disciples. Yet we see success in the numbers who attend our services – or in how many converts we have annually. But that isn’t what I’m commanded to do. I’m commanded to make disciples and I can’t do that if I fail to communicate – or misinterpret what is being communicated.
The joke was simply a joke. But in your candor you have made my point abundantly clear. I assumed the offense would come from the middle finger being used. You pointed out that offense might come from the use of a Pope and a Rabbi, from the fact that the Rabbi was rude in his delivery, or possibly from the fact that those involved were dialoguing from two entirely different paradigms.
The indictment wasn’t intended to be on anyone except myself. The joke spoke to my past failures to communicate – and to have clarity in the message returned. That is what this journey is all about. My journey to liberty. I can’t judge anyone’s journey except my own.
… and you’re always welcome to comment without disqualification. Perhaps through your comments I will be sharpened yet some more.
August 6, 2010 at 5:09 pm
Yea, I don’t mind the finger at all. I’m just mad because there are no Indians in the joke. Feather Indians, not dot. And for those who get offended easily, I say to you, DON’T!
August 7, 2010 at 2:32 am
You’re funny, Bryan. Maybe we should collaborate on a book.
August 6, 2010 at 5:11 pm
And by the way I love the blog, now maybe work on a book!!
August 8, 2010 at 10:15 pm
Just had to check your reply. A book would be great, and i really love to hear your point that we are here to make disciples. I was beginning to think i was here to give money. lol, Just kidding, kind of. I also read some other stuff on your blog. Your right God has a message and it will go forward. I really do want to be part of that even though it might not seem that way. I truly believe that the Lord is raising up a new kind of christian. SOME churches and SOME pastors are getting close but sometimes i think old rules, dare i say old religion gets in the way. Live by faith is a message i hear often, for me this raises the question why the magic number? If i am set free why must i choose between a magic number or a curse? I thought Jesus died to set us free from bondage. Sometimes it seems there are more chains at church than any where else!! Just a thought. Love the BLOG Thanks!! By the way I really love what I do at church!!
August 10, 2010 at 12:09 am
Lol. You ARE here to give money to me! Old rules are what hold many of us back … and yes, even old religion. There shouldn’t be too many magic numbers in life, but sometimes understanding might come through a number. For example, I’m perfect in every way because on 07-07-77 I turned 17 (7 being the number of perfection). Now if I could roll a 7 and 11 anytime I wanted at the craps table I might also be perfectly rich.
As for the chains, I’m not certain there are more chains at church but perhaps God reveals more chains while we are at church. I dunno. Good question. Now I’ll have to think about it but I’m going to get some sleep first.
November 7, 2010 at 10:55 pm
Since it is the Holy Spirit that conveys Truth, if a person, committed to Christ is continuously yielding to His presence, he/she need not be concerned whether he/she is perceived as a Pharisee. After all,
“……even among the rulers many believed in Him, but because of the Pharisees they did not confess Him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue”
John 12:41 NKJV
“After hearing this, they praised God. And then they said, “You know, dear brother, how many thousands of Jews have also believed, and they all follow the law of Moses very seriously.” NLT
Acts 21:19
“Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.”
Psalm 119:164 KJV
December 10, 2010 at 1:35 pm
You are correct. I’m less concerned with people thinking I’m a Pharisee as I am that I see myself as one. I do things and later on look back and see that I was judgmental or critical, or that I had completely misread the intentions of the scripture. This blog is more about me “coming clean” and admitting my faults … or perhaps more so, at the very least admitting that my way isn’t the only way.
December 21, 2010 at 5:20 pm
Wow – although it looks like you posted this months ago – I only came across it today after having a conversation with a co-worker about Mathew 7, judging others and “the beam”. Uncanny in the timing!
I wasn’t offended but I’m likely one of the more ‘offensive’ people you know…
One of my favorite quotes from Paul is from 1 Cor. 4:3 when he says “I do not even judge myself” – which I aways took to mean if God called me, then who am I to say I’m not worthy – even if I rank “chief of sinners”.
January 1, 2011 at 2:44 pm
Dale, you are far from the most offensive person I know.
Your verse is very appropriate. It is clear that Paul didn’t care what people thought of him (perhaps something we both have in common with him?) and that our focus should be on God’s acceptance – not by our own human standards. It is interesting that he wrote in 2 Cor. 13:5 that we needed to prove ourselves.
I think, too, that if you read verse 4 with this, Paul points out that just because we have a clear conscious about something doesn’t mean we are correct. After all, Paul admits that he executed Christians with a clear conscious. Sometimes we judge our actions by how we feel. Lord knows I have, anyways. Just because I’ve said something in the heat of debate – and even if I “felt” I was in the right when I said it – doesn’t excuse the wrong. Sin isn’t excuse by our feeling that it is okay.
In the end it is God’s reckoning, not our own. We can’t judge others. We can’t judge ourselves.
Thanks for bringing this verse to our attention.